ERIC ALTERMAN is unhappy with my Wednesday post in which I disagreed with his characterization of Sweden as a “beacon of light” after which the United States should model itself. I made three points: (1) Sweden collaborated with the Nazis in World War Two, and with various unsavory types afterward; (2) Sweden has more crime than America; and (3) Sweden is poorer than Mississippi.

There was no response to (1), which I’ll regard as a concession of the point, and rightly so. Similarly, point (2) is pretty much conceded as well (as one of Eric’s readers says: “Sweden has way more murders than I thought it would!”). So that leaves the Mississippi point. I had posted on this a while back, with a link to a Swedish study that said exactly that. The link doesn’t work any more, but Alterman points to this “debunking” in The American Prospect, which doesn’t actually say the study’s wrong, but says that its methodology is flawed because it should include the value of government services that Swedes get. Well, okay, but if you’re taking such extrinsic factors into account, you should probably also take into account that it’s a lot cheaper to live in Mississippi. However, Stephen Green, using different — and probably better — methodology says that Sweden is actually slightly richer than Mississippi, but still poorer than Alabama. And he notes that Mississippians are more likely to have jobs. (Note, too, that the gap between Sweden and the U.S. as a whole, as opposed to just a couple of its poorest states, is colossal. As for the comparision of poverty rates invoked by one of Alterman’s readers, that’s not a comparison of wealth, but of income distribution.)

But, okay: In a spirit of generosity I’ll concede the Mississippi point, though I do think I’m being generous to do so. That still leaves me with the high ground on two out of three, which seems to me to undercut the notion that Sweden is or should be a “beacon of light” to the world.

However, the intensity of Alterman’s response, and of some of his readers’ letters on the subject, suggests that Sweden does remain a beacon of light to the American left. But then, we knew that already.

As for Alterman’s invocation of Amsterdam, with its legalized prostitution and hash bars, all I can say is: I’ve got no problem with that. Why would I?

UPDATE: Here’s someone who wants Sweden to be more of a beacon.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Eric emails that he concedes on the Nazi issue, but that he’s going to have another go at the crime issue on Monday. Fine with me — I’m happy to keep this volley going — but remember: it’s not enough to quibble about numbers, the results have to support the original statement that Sweden is a “beacon of light.” And I’m not sure that any crime stats will help that. We’ve already done the “somewhat better than Mississippi” thing on money. If you’re just somewhat better than Mississippi on crime and money, but still have the Nazi thing hanging around your neck, well, the “beacon of light” award is going to elude you. In the meantime, Floyd McWilliams says the wealth question is still open.

STILL ANOTHER UPDATE: Hey, above I blame an Alterman reader for subsituting “poverty rate” for “wealth.” But actually Alterman pulled this switcheroo yesterday, which I hadn’t noticed. Poverty rates aren’t a measure of wealth, but of wealth distribution: the United States could be a lot poorer, and still have less poverty (in which case it would look like, well, Sweden). But it would be poorer, and per-capita income would be lower. I haven’t heard a lot of lefties saying that they want to make America 30% poorer in order to achieve a halving of poverty rates, but that’s what emulating Sweden would involve. And, heck, maybe that’s what they do want, but if so you don’t hear it advertised much. Thanks to reader Kevin Hurst, who pointed out the error and added a few observations:

For some reason Eric Alterman misquoted you as claiming that the poverty rate in Sweden is higher than in Mississippi when you claimed that Sweden as a whole is poorer than Mississippi. Sweden is clearly poorer than the United States by a very wide margin, as is every other country save maybe Luxembourg. Sweden may be ever so slightly more wealthy, as a whole, than Mississippi, but so what?

As for the flaw identified by TAP, the value of government spending is already included in GDP per capita, so I find their objection to the study unpersuasive. As a matter of fact, GDP, in my opinion tends to overstate the wealth of high tax, high government spending countries because I think GDP measures overstate the value of government services relative to the private sector. Sweden has been an economic basket case for two decades and it’s is a testament to the delusional nature of many on the left that they still cling to illusions of the “Third Way” so popular in the 1970’s and early ’80’s. Sweden will continue to fall farther behind the US in terms of material wealth in the future, but they have their righteousness to keep them warm. But one should never forget how “wealthy” the USSR was according to GDP statistics and I will never forget John Kenneth Galbraith praising the Soviet economic performance as late as 1984. Some will believe anything.

Interesting. Stay tuned.